Edgewater: Neighborhood of Tomorrow...Or of Yesterday?
We're thinking about buying a house in Edgewater. I lived there about ten years ago and up until very recently, I was terribly nostalgic about it. (I don't know what happened -- it just disappeared, like a wart you've had for years.)
I have mixed feelings. Yesterday afternoon we were at the bank getting our preapproval letter, watching the Ohio City Blooms banner go up where Villa y Zapata used to be. In fact, West 25th is full of "Coming Soon," "Opening Soon," and "Grand Opening."
In contrast, the business district on Clifton has been hit really hard by something lately - whether it's the recession or good old Cleveland-style urban decay. We drove over to Edgewater after our trip to the bank to have a look around. There are a lot of empty storefronts, including the old Giant Eagle at West 117th and It's It Deli, and there are rumors that the Hollywood Video is going to close soon. Heck, even the community development corporation moved out of its building on Detroit a few years ago.
We stopped in at Clifton Web, a card and gift store that's been around as long as I can remember, because there were big banners out front that said "Moving Sale." The girl at the counter told us they were moving to Avon Lake. I casually mentioned that we were thinking about buying a house nearby and asked if she thought the neighborhood was in decline. "Oh yeah. Big time," she said.
Now, I never thought the business district on Clifton was all that fantastic -- there were always a lot of empty storefronts and business turnover -- and even ten years ago when I didn't know much about urban stuff I found it weird that a neighborhood so chock-full of people could barely support a business district. But it's really only a walker's neighborhood on the surface -- I think in reality, Edgewater is more of a pass-through neighborhood for people getting on and off the Shoreway.
My husband contends that Edgewater has good housing stock (the house we're thinking about buying is lovely and would be a joy to live in), good public transit connections, lots of old-growth trees, and it remains just about the only neighborhood in the City of Cleveland where you can walk to the Lake. (If there's one thing I learned from living in New Jersey, it's that proximity to Big Water is nothing to be sneezed at, in terms of property value or potential property value).
Me, I don't know. I'm not sure I want to get stuck in a declining neighborhood.
So what do you guys think? Anyone out there want to share their thoughts about the future of Edgewater with a potential neighbor?
I have mixed feelings. Yesterday afternoon we were at the bank getting our preapproval letter, watching the Ohio City Blooms banner go up where Villa y Zapata used to be. In fact, West 25th is full of "Coming Soon," "Opening Soon," and "Grand Opening."
In contrast, the business district on Clifton has been hit really hard by something lately - whether it's the recession or good old Cleveland-style urban decay. We drove over to Edgewater after our trip to the bank to have a look around. There are a lot of empty storefronts, including the old Giant Eagle at West 117th and It's It Deli, and there are rumors that the Hollywood Video is going to close soon. Heck, even the community development corporation moved out of its building on Detroit a few years ago.
We stopped in at Clifton Web, a card and gift store that's been around as long as I can remember, because there were big banners out front that said "Moving Sale." The girl at the counter told us they were moving to Avon Lake. I casually mentioned that we were thinking about buying a house nearby and asked if she thought the neighborhood was in decline. "Oh yeah. Big time," she said.
Now, I never thought the business district on Clifton was all that fantastic -- there were always a lot of empty storefronts and business turnover -- and even ten years ago when I didn't know much about urban stuff I found it weird that a neighborhood so chock-full of people could barely support a business district. But it's really only a walker's neighborhood on the surface -- I think in reality, Edgewater is more of a pass-through neighborhood for people getting on and off the Shoreway.
My husband contends that Edgewater has good housing stock (the house we're thinking about buying is lovely and would be a joy to live in), good public transit connections, lots of old-growth trees, and it remains just about the only neighborhood in the City of Cleveland where you can walk to the Lake. (If there's one thing I learned from living in New Jersey, it's that proximity to Big Water is nothing to be sneezed at, in terms of property value or potential property value).
Me, I don't know. I'm not sure I want to get stuck in a declining neighborhood.
So what do you guys think? Anyone out there want to share their thoughts about the future of Edgewater with a potential neighbor?
posted by Christine Borne at 5:54 PM
21 Comments:
I used to live on Lake Avenue near there and did quite a bit of walking: Giant Eagle, CVS, delis etc. It was pretty good, but for walkable errands, I prefer Ohio City.
I might suggest brushing up on the Shoreway-as-a-boulevard plans. I think if the Shoreway becomes a nice boulevard, that area might bounce back. This is pure speculation on my part.
You are making a tough decision during tough times!
I find it hard to believe that there's a large market for gay greeting cards in Avon Lake. But maybe I'm just close minded.
I think in reality, Edgewater is more of a pass-through neighborhood for people getting on and off the Shoreway.
i think i'd have to agree w/ you. however, they do have a couple of restaurants and shops we frequent (detroit ave.). but coming from someone who has only lived in this area for 3 years (previously in SEA), i don't know that i see that area as a "destination" point, so to speak (if that makes any sense). though it has excellent access to public transport, i agree w/ jenita in choosing ohio city for walkability.
good luck!
What appeals to me about Edgewater is that it's a very short bus ride from the Lakewood business district, which is where I really want to live but can't because marriage is supposed to be about "compromises" or something. Ohio City is lacking in a lot of services that are well-represented in Lakewood. Obviously I would miss the Market very much, but I've realized that I can adjust my work schedule to come in on Saturdays once in a while, so I could come to the Market during the week if I really wanted to. Which I will.
Mr. Beckley, I hear you about the greeting cards. I literally did not set foot once in Clifton Web the entire time I lived on Lake Ave, because I just don't buy that kind of stuff. The Clifton business district really needs to have stuff that the neighborhood will support. What is that stuff? Don't ask me. I am just a librarian!
Clifton Web is leaving? I always liked that place, although all I ever bought there was greeting cards (non-racy, I swear!), Christmas cards and gift wrap. Hard to figure how you can make money selling that sort of thing. Ah, I'll miss the place, though.
"it remains just about the only neighborhood in the City of Cleveland where you can walk to the Lake. (If there's one thing I learned from living in New Jersey, it's that proximity to Big Water is nothing to be sneezed at, in terms of property value or potential property value)."
I respectfully disagree. If you're willing to go to the other side of town, the area north of lakeshore boulevard from just east of Bratenahl to E 185 is full of homes in nice neighborhoods with lake access, and much of the housing stock is very affordable and in decent shape. Some of the streets that look very uninviting (private streets w/ keep out signs) are surprisingly inexpensive and friendly.
Example:
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/reo/1051062046.html
It seems pretty clear what direction the neighborhood is going, and it definitely seems to be the opposite of the kind of way you want to live. My guess is pretty quickly you'd find yourself driving a lot of places because the neighborhood wouldn't be able to sustain the lifestyle you want. Seems like Lakewood or (gasp) Ohio City would be better, but I know there are big cost differences to contend with.
Well, I wouldn't be driving anywhere, because I don't drive!
But seriously, I didn't mean to offend by excluding the east side. Yes, I do know that there are lake-accessible parts. Hence, I did leave that loophole "just about the only" (as opposed to "only") in there. The east side is just not convenient to where we need to get to on a regular basis. I have nothing against it - I lived there for 2 years!
And actually, there is a surprising amount of stuff to walk to in Edgewater, I've figured out ... just not along Clifton. And it's the kind of stuff that we don't have in the OC - doctor's offices, pharmacy, liquor agency (yes, only the basics), etc. And the easy bus ride to the Lakewood business district really is key - it's kind of a pain in the ass to get to what I would consider a functional business district from Ohio City. So I'd be gaining that, at least.
Tough call. Even though my in-laws live in Slavic Village, many times when my wife and I visit Cleveland, I take the dog to Edgewater, just because I like to walk around the neighborhood (and the park) so much. A lot of great architecture and a very mellow vibe. Even though, as you've mentioned, there's been some disinvestment in the commercial districts, I have a hard time picturing that neighborhood falling off the cliff, so to speak. In your case, I see the public transportation aspect as a major plus. I'm having a hard time figuring out why your husband wouldn't want to move to Lakewood, except for maybe a rabid commitment to staying in Cleveland (which is admirable). If I lived up there, Lakewood would be my first choice. Great housing stock, great restaurants/bars, record stores, etc. If I had to live in Cleveland, I'd pick Edgewater, Detroit Shoreway or Ohio City. While I'm here, I might as well give a plug to a project that I'm involved with: Green Cottages in Detroit Shoreway. Check it out, might be a good option for you: http://www.cclandtrust.org/GreenCottages/ Good luck!
Yes, a "rabid commitment to living in Cleveland." LOL. Maybe I should've gotten him a booster shot! Also, it's better for him to get to work the closer we live to downtown (he works in a sort of RTA-unfriendly south suburb), so Lakewood is pushing it. He would feel better about living in Lakewood if he worked, say, downtown (or in the city of Cleveland) but he's got ideological issues with not paying ANY of his income taxes to the city.
I mean, I do too - but to a lesser degree. I personally think we would be better proponents of regional government if we lived in an inner-ring suburb than in the city ... we could be more influential in convincing our neighbors that regionalism is the way to go ... but whatever. I just want to take the bus and have stuff to walk to and not pay a m-fing fortune for my house. I hope this doesn't make me sound like a douchebag, but I feel like, "haven't I done enough by choosing to move back here rather than stay a product of the brain-drain?"
Ever thought about using a local credit union instead of a bank?
Technically, we don't use a bank...we use a savings and loan, and to boot it's a savings and loan that didn't get into the subprime lending fiasco because its director thought that was irresponsible. I'm very happy with them!
I wouldn't feel guilty about supporting Lakewood or any of the other first ring suburbs that, like Cleveland, are also struggling to make ends meet. If you were talking about buying a house in Cleveland vs. Pepper Pike or some other upscale far-flung auto-oriented suburb that's really sucking the economic lifeblood out of established urban neighborhoods - that would be a different story.
Hi Christine: As the Executive Director of Cudell Improvement, Inc., I am pleased to learn that you and your husband are seriously considering home ownership in the Edgewater neighborhood. It is a fine area with elegant homes and friendly people - great proximity to downtown attractions and, of course, that great lakefront. The Clifton Boulevard shopping district is a wonderful, walkable mix of restaurants, shops and services. It's It Deli was a tremendous loss but another restaurant will soon take its place. Area residents were saddened to learn of the closing of Clifton Web but a well known shop will announce its opening there soon - and be a great complement to the tremendous draw of the legendary Flower Child. You had mentioned the potential closing of Hollywood Video. That will be a decision of the chain, nationwide, since bankruptcy is rumored. There will be no trouble filling that space as it is highly coveted. Starbucks is going gangbusters as is Pet Tique, Liquid Planet and j.romer salon. The 22nd Annual Clifton Arts & Musicfest will be staged on Saturday, June 20th and the 2nd Annual Candy Cane Cruise will be on Saturday, December 5th. Both events have been presented with, and for, the local and national businesses on Clifton Blvd. and Detroit Avenue. Please also keep in mind that Johnny Malloy's just opened at the corner of West 117 and Clifton and is a real complement to The Diner on Clifton and Twist (that will soon be opening a roof top deck). Papa Nick's Pizza & Pasta is a regional draw as is Asian Grill and Don's Lighthouse (to be featured on the Cudell/Edgewater page in the upcoming LiveCleveland supplement to Cleveland Magazine). And don't forget Busy Broad (just expanded into a second storefront) and Christophier Custom Clothier (a $1.5 million redevelopment across from Don's Lighthouse)that are unique businesses on Clifton Boulevard. You mentioned Cudell Improvement, Inc. leaving Detroit Avenue (actually in August 2008 - not years ago). Cudell relocated in another area within its service area as it has done five other times in its history. The building Cudell sold on Detroit Avenue was only purchased as an investment and sold to a developer from out of town who is considering options for reuse. Across the street from that location on Detroit is the increible Brothers Lounge - a regional draw and featured in the March Cleveland Magazine. Just a little east on Detroit is Gray's Auctioneers. Gray's is another $1 million investment that has exceeded its business projections by a wide margin. Should I go on? Please do buy a home in our neighborhood and enjoy all these great amenities and more. Go to www.cudell.com and click on Public Art to see all the outdoor art installations in the Edgewater area. We'd love to take you on a tour and put you in touch with others who love the Cudell/Edgewater area. We'll talk your leg off about the benefits of living here. Hope to meet you soon. Anita Brindza (anita@cudell.com)
My husband and I moved to the Edgewater neighborhood from Shaker Square three years ago with zero regrets. The housing and proximity to Edgewater park are wonderful. Crime is low and we love the easy access to downtown. We do support the businesses on Clifton, but also shop in nearby Lakewood. The Lakewood Community Circulator bus (804) provides easy access.
I bought a duplex off Clifton on the Cleveland side of Edgewater three years ago (after apt. living off Clifton in Lakewood) and have no regrets (other than the terrible housing market--which would work in your favor). While you're right that some businesses seem to be closing, I think that's symptomatic of the economy as a whole, and not the neighborhood, as all the great hot spots around town are struggling. Even when stores have closed, something else always opens- case in point: the 'New' Truffles. Also, I feel pretty safe, which, I don't care what people may say, if you can't feel safe in your home it's not one. Also, I have great neighbors, and decent little back yard and garage (which the O.C. typically doesn't offer),can walk to get a movie, eat, drink, bank, and go to the park. . .Big picture: If you looked on a map and said where is Cleveland and what is unique and special and sets this city/ region apart, obviously it's the lake, so why not live as close to that geographical amenity as possible?
Wow, this post made me very nostalgic. We used to live around there when it was still the Stop 'n Shop and Revco. And we would walk to Clifton Web and the frozen yogurt and record store next door. I miss that neighborhood.
John Jane Doe:
I have lived in the neighborhood for the past several years, and it has been a mixed bag...There are MANY great things to like about the area, but nearly as many things to dislike. Bottom line, the dislikes are all tied to undesirable and/ or criminal behaviors by people living in or passing through the neighborhood.
Likes:
*** Walkability to nearby shops/ discount stores, restaurants...
*** Easy access ( within walking distance ) to the Lake and 2 parks ( Edgewater and Lakewood Park )...
*** Cycling friendly ( except for Clifton/Detroit at times ), and only 10-15 minute ride to Ohio City and the Market.
*** Freeway access ( I-90 )
*** Close proximity to Lakewood businesses.
*** Diversity
*** Overall character and architecture.
*** Solid, committed, respectful businesses ( Flower Child, Starbucks, Twist < when music does not get too loud >, The Diner, Papa Nicks, banks, Pet-Tique, Four Seasons etc...
*** Recent signs of investment in the area ( storefront renovation of convenience store/ gas station on Clifton, Brother's Lounge, Christophier...
*** Art and Music Fest and Dancin' in the Streets are great events for the neighborhood!
*** Candy Cane crawl if it grows and continues...
*** HOPEFUL that the West Shoreway project will happen, but not too optimistic considering all the delays...at one point it included Clifton and that has been sticken ( unfortunately )...
*** HOPEFUL the redevelopment of the 116th/Clifton/ Lake/ 117th block will take place...it has been much-talked-about ( new business and townhomes? ), but no signs of progress ( except vacancies )...
Dislikes:
*** DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS
*** " Thugs " and drugs in the apartment buildings on my street...this has been the case since I have been here.
*** LOUD music by idle cars at business between 117th and Starbucks...There is supposed to be a new " noise " ordinance in Cleveland that applies to autos and homeowners/ renters, but I have not noticed any enforcement ( I have watched patrols sit near violators and not do anything )..this is a huge quality of life issue...
*** Inconsiderate people that litter freely...I frequently clear the trash from my tree-lawn and the the adjacent treelawns ( I have called the violators out a few times, but fearful of retaliation ).
*** There are many well-maintained homes south of Clifton, but there are quite a few that are NOT...I am not expecting palaces, but it would be nice to have consistently maintained lawns, no tall weeds against foundations, no INTERIOR furniture on front porches ( i.e: couches, televisions, gas grills )...These less-than-well-maintained properties prevent people from noticing the nice ones ( impacts values! ).
*** The unruliness of some patrons outside a tavern on Clifton ( this has been addressed at times, but seems to be an ongoing issue...it also negatively impacts the dining experience of the sidewalk diners at Papa Nicks ).
*** Speeding on the side streets...OUT OF CONTROL!
*** loitering ( and who knows what else! ) on Detroit bewteen 117th and 110th...fearful to walk that stretch after 5pm...
**** I would say that if you buy on Lake or Edgewater, you will be pretty immune to many of the social disturbances that other people in the neighborhood experience...your quality of life should be fine.
Hi Christine,
What did you decide to do? Edgewater, Bratenahl, Ohio City or Detroit Shoreway?
By the way the Cudell comment was fantastic. Have you visited Big Fun yet on Clifton?
Serena
All within a mile from each other...*Giant Eagle at Clifton/W 116th: CLOSED. *Hollywood Video at Clifton/W 116th: CLOSED. *Diverse Universe at Detroit/Hopkins: CLOSED. *York Video on W 117th: CLOSING AS I WRITE THIS. *It's It Deli on Clifton: CLOSED. *The Clifton Web on Clifton: MOVING OUT, etc...what next? A thriving neighborhood at one time; what's to become of it in the near future? HELP!
My previous comments are not to criticize or put down the neighborhood. I am merely indicating that things are not what they used to be by pointing out the rash of closings. I have been "playing in this neighborhood" since the 1980's (The Pickwick Lounge, Swingos, Dean's Lounge, Rocky's, Over the Rainbow, Memoirs, Harlow's, Billy's, Legends, The Olympic, Wilshire Grille, etc...ALL CLOSED) as a visitor while living on the East side, half of numerous relationships with West-siders, as a resident in the early 80's and again as a Gold Coast resident since 2005. For me and the countless others who fondly reminesce about the days of yore in the old neighborhood, sadly, it is not the same. Sometimes change is good. Sometimes. This, so far, isn't one of those times.
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