Analysis of Last Night's Public Hearing on Hush Nightclub
We spent last night at the public hearing about the proposed Hush Nightclub (operated by the former owners of Heaven & Earth, on the East Bank of the Flats), which is seeking to transfer their liquor license to the former Moda location. (Read about it in the PD if you want.)
After remarks by Councilmen Joe Santiago (Ward 14, my ward, the ward the nightclub would be in) and Joe Cimperman (Ward 13), who brought a stack of complaints he'd received about Moda and kept just for this occasion, we heard the presentation by Heaven & Earth operators Mack Danzey and Eric Buckner. Then Karl Johnson of Ohio City Near West Development read our questions, which had been submitted on 3x5 index cards (I personally submitted a stack of 5.) And then the floor opened up for comment - we heard from residents, other local business owners, and the West Side Market Tenants' Association, which opposed the club.
Before the meeting I called my friend, a longtime nightclub-goer with a high tolerance to the seedy underbelly of society (she works in marketing), and asked her about Heaven & Earth. What kind of people go there? "Oh, young twentysomethings. College kids." But they claim they're going to market toward a "mature" crowd. "It doesn't matter who you market to. It's who shows up."
Here are my reasons for opposing this nightclub:
1. I live on West 25th, and so do a lot of other people. And judging by last night, a lot of us don't want to deal with the noise disturbances a nightclub would cause.
2. I don't want this place to become a nightspot destination for people who used to go to the Flats. Sorry, but find some other neighborhood to trash. As the angriest of my neighbors said last night, "this is a historic district," not a slum. I'm afraid a nightclub of that size, which was formerly in the Flats, would attract the "slumming it" crowd.
3. A nightclub wouldn't benefit the neighborhood economy as much as something that was open during the day. Did you know that Mike Shea, the owner of the Alternative Press, had been trying to buy that building? For the sake of argument, let's say that the Alternative Press did manage to buy the building and use it for their offices. Well, all of their employees (judging by their contact page, it looks like they've got at least 20) would be around during the day and on their breaks, they would go get coffee at Talkies, have lunch at Nate's and Phnom Penh and the Monastery. They would stop off at Dave's and the West Side Market to pick up a gallon of milk and some sandwich meat. They might open accounts at one of the many banks up and down West 25th. They would sift through the record collection at the Bookstore on West 25th. But nightclub-goers couldn't pump any of that money into our local economy, because all of those places would be closed.
4. If I'd wanted to move to the Warehouse District, I would have done. But I didn't, and I didn't because I didn't want to be around all the bars. I knew I'd hate it. And I've wanted to live by the West Side Market for my entire life.
All of that aside, I thought the owners of Heaven & Earth presented their case as best they could to a hostile crowd, and -- frankly -- I think they seemed like decent guys who wouldn't "pull a Moda." That wasn't exactly my concern, after doing a morning's worth of research on them.
My biggest concern is that this neighborhood is just too residential to support a nightclub with a capacity of 550. That's 500 people spilling out onto West 25th at 2 AM for the listening pleasure of hundreds of senior citizens at Riverview Towers and the residents of the Metzner, Merrell, and Fries & Schuele buildings. Let me tell you, if the capacity was 99, I might've been convinced. But 550? No way.
Who came off the worst during the meeting, however, were not the club's proposed operators. The owners of the building, Rialto Corporation, did a lousy job of playing to the crowd's sensibilities. When a resident expressed concern for the safety of his children, Rialto Corp. responded with, if you have children, you shouldn't live in the city. When a resident described how, during the Moda Affair, she used to call Joe Cimperman's voicemail at 4 AM and hold it out her window so he could hear the noise disturbances she had to live with, Rialto Corp told her that if she didn't like noise at 4 AM she shouldn't live in the city. (By his own admission, this guy lived "in the country," which drew a lot of booing and hissing.)
You know, even though I oppose the nightclub, if Danzey and Buckner get their license transfer, I'll go over there and welcome them to the neighborhood. If they'll be a good neighbor to me, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I just would rather see something else in that space.
After remarks by Councilmen Joe Santiago (Ward 14, my ward, the ward the nightclub would be in) and Joe Cimperman (Ward 13), who brought a stack of complaints he'd received about Moda and kept just for this occasion, we heard the presentation by Heaven & Earth operators Mack Danzey and Eric Buckner. Then Karl Johnson of Ohio City Near West Development read our questions, which had been submitted on 3x5 index cards (I personally submitted a stack of 5.) And then the floor opened up for comment - we heard from residents, other local business owners, and the West Side Market Tenants' Association, which opposed the club.
Before the meeting I called my friend, a longtime nightclub-goer with a high tolerance to the seedy underbelly of society (she works in marketing), and asked her about Heaven & Earth. What kind of people go there? "Oh, young twentysomethings. College kids." But they claim they're going to market toward a "mature" crowd. "It doesn't matter who you market to. It's who shows up."
Here are my reasons for opposing this nightclub:
1. I live on West 25th, and so do a lot of other people. And judging by last night, a lot of us don't want to deal with the noise disturbances a nightclub would cause.
2. I don't want this place to become a nightspot destination for people who used to go to the Flats. Sorry, but find some other neighborhood to trash. As the angriest of my neighbors said last night, "this is a historic district," not a slum. I'm afraid a nightclub of that size, which was formerly in the Flats, would attract the "slumming it" crowd.
3. A nightclub wouldn't benefit the neighborhood economy as much as something that was open during the day. Did you know that Mike Shea, the owner of the Alternative Press, had been trying to buy that building? For the sake of argument, let's say that the Alternative Press did manage to buy the building and use it for their offices. Well, all of their employees (judging by their contact page, it looks like they've got at least 20) would be around during the day and on their breaks, they would go get coffee at Talkies, have lunch at Nate's and Phnom Penh and the Monastery. They would stop off at Dave's and the West Side Market to pick up a gallon of milk and some sandwich meat. They might open accounts at one of the many banks up and down West 25th. They would sift through the record collection at the Bookstore on West 25th. But nightclub-goers couldn't pump any of that money into our local economy, because all of those places would be closed.
4. If I'd wanted to move to the Warehouse District, I would have done. But I didn't, and I didn't because I didn't want to be around all the bars. I knew I'd hate it. And I've wanted to live by the West Side Market for my entire life.
All of that aside, I thought the owners of Heaven & Earth presented their case as best they could to a hostile crowd, and -- frankly -- I think they seemed like decent guys who wouldn't "pull a Moda." That wasn't exactly my concern, after doing a morning's worth of research on them.
My biggest concern is that this neighborhood is just too residential to support a nightclub with a capacity of 550. That's 500 people spilling out onto West 25th at 2 AM for the listening pleasure of hundreds of senior citizens at Riverview Towers and the residents of the Metzner, Merrell, and Fries & Schuele buildings. Let me tell you, if the capacity was 99, I might've been convinced. But 550? No way.
Who came off the worst during the meeting, however, were not the club's proposed operators. The owners of the building, Rialto Corporation, did a lousy job of playing to the crowd's sensibilities. When a resident expressed concern for the safety of his children, Rialto Corp. responded with, if you have children, you shouldn't live in the city. When a resident described how, during the Moda Affair, she used to call Joe Cimperman's voicemail at 4 AM and hold it out her window so he could hear the noise disturbances she had to live with, Rialto Corp told her that if she didn't like noise at 4 AM she shouldn't live in the city. (By his own admission, this guy lived "in the country," which drew a lot of booing and hissing.)
You know, even though I oppose the nightclub, if Danzey and Buckner get their license transfer, I'll go over there and welcome them to the neighborhood. If they'll be a good neighbor to me, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I just would rather see something else in that space.
posted by Christine Borne at 7:58 AM
15 Comments:
So, when are campaigning for Santiago's Council seat? :-)
Seriously, that was one of the most level-headed critiques of a potential development project I've heard in a long time. Out of curiosity, what were your specific 5 questions, and how were they addressed?
Based on your write-up, it sounds like Rialto are the bad guys... were they the building owners when the problems with Moda surfaced, or did they come in as "white knights" who are now looking to make a fast buck, neighborhood-be-damned?
Thank you. :)
They were the landlords with Moda, and it seemed to me that they were trying to recoup their losses from Moda - according to Mike Shea of the Alternative Press, when he approached them about purchasing the building they gave him a price of $2 million. I dunno. I haven't looked it up, but I am skeptical about the market value of that building being *that* high. (calling Carole Cohen- Carole, are you there?)
My questions had to do with how they planned to deal with crowd control, noise from people on the street, noise from inside the building (someone else's question suggested that the building was not adequately soundproofed), and that kind of thing. I was leery because they said they hadn't looked into soundproofing at all.
Like I said, I think they're not bad guys, and I respect the hard work they've put in to be small business owners, which is something I could never really do. But the club size is too big and there are too many people living here.
Plus, if the West Side Market Tenants Association says no, I feel like their opinion should have the most weight. The Market is the heart and soul of this neighborhood, the only reason why this neighborhood didn't crumble a long time ago. As a kid I came here and there WAS nothing here but the Market. So, I defer to them!
And, there is NO WAY I would ever be on City Council. NO. WAY.
Christine great analysis. I agree about the WSM tenant vote but also feel the commmunity vote, overwhelmingly opposed at the mtg, will provide the domino effect to OCNW and they will not support it either.
When the one owner made the comment about 'if you have children you shouldn't live in an urban area anyway' I was thinking they needed a better PR person. Mike and AP would be fabulous owners, in business for over 20 years - we would love to buy that building. I looked for you after the meeting but you were gone. I loved your questions!
btw, the info regarding buildings? We researched and there have not been sales above 600k or 650 k and even at that, only two. I can't really go into negotiating details but I can give public record and public info factoids: the old cowell and hubbard bldg downtown sold for 1 mil and that is 43k sq feet; great location for that bldg too. Moda is only 10,346 sq ft. Even my math tells me that is not close!
Oh, were you there too? I thought that you might be, but the room was so full of people. Do you have any perspective on what that building should cost?
Re: children in an urban area...I just babysat my friend's daughter the other day...My friend, who's lived in OC for 15 years, was telling me about how she'd been thinking about moving but her kids wouldn't have it. They love it here.
Oh, thanks for the sales info, Carole! You are a local hero!
lol I only knew you were there because you stood up!
omg ty but no, Mike is the one who was so eloquent and heartfelt.
I do however second the emotion that you run for Council. If you do I am there!
Chrstine:
They were the landlords with Moda, and it seemed to me that they were trying to recoup their losses from Moda[...]
Yeah, that was my take too. I think they put a lot of money into that building (and certainly the outside is very nicely done) making certain assumptions about cashflow, and it's going to take a big successful nightclub to meet those assumptions. And/or a buyer willing to pay more than market.
They were their own worst enemies in that meeting, although I think the neighborhood would have been pretty much against no matter what.
I understand your concerns about the noise and the immediate crowd around the building, Christine, living where you do, but it's the Moda-related gunfire stories that really freaked me out. Do you have any idea how bad things actually got with regard to that? I wasn't living in the neighborhood then.
I'm willing to believe that Hush might tip to the seedy side, but not the outright dangerous side. If they've operated as long as they have without any major incidents, then that's a good sign to me. I mean, not every nightclub is going to go bad. But I think that the progress this neighborhood has made during my lifetime is WAY too fragile to risk it.
But like my marketing friend said, you can advertise to a certain desirable crowd, but it doesn't mean that's who you'll get. And who you get, well, you're not going to turn their money away, are you?
Obviously I am concerned about violence as well, being that I live here. Judging by how long it took the owner of our building to put the notice under our doors (about 5 minutes after the email went out from OCNW), Moda was a big problem for his tenants.
I should add too that, at the very least, I'd be willing to see this space become an events center for corporate parties, networking events, wedding receptions, whatever, without the nightclub aspect. Like the Bohemian National Hall or the Slovenian Home or places like that. Daytime things, weekend things, and early evening things where people can trickle out and spend their money at nearby businesses. But stuff that's over by midnight, please. It's just not fair to have something so large, so loud, and so late in such a residential area.
Another thing just occurred to me. Who was that woman at the very end who expressed sympathy for the plight of building owners on W. 25th St. because she owned a couple herself? She seemed quite astounded at the negative crowd reaction to the news that she didn't live in Ohio City (although she "grew up there"). I was wondering if there was some reason that she would expect everyone to know who she was and accept her bona fides.
I have no idea who that woman was. Anyone?
$2 million? Without even having seen the building, I can guarantee that I want some of whatever these guys have been smoking. "Hadn't looked into soundproofing" sounds more like "didn't have a freakin' clue how to integrate a late-night business into a residential neighborhood".
I'm experiencing a similar situation on the East side with the LaSalle theater and the former Medic drugstore over there both asking seven-figure prices. Meanwhile, the old Tops sold for a reasonable price, and we should have a Save-A-Lot by late February, with Slovenian Home assisted living to follow at some later time.
Keep fighting the good fight. West Side Market rocks...
The woman in question was Maria Keckan, who owns Cinecraft Productions, as well as the building that houses the new Kan Zaman location. I think Maria means well, but just did not realize how opposed most of us were to this nightclub proposal. We live here, and exercised our right to oppose an unwanted business. Once that liquor permit transfers, we lose all control of what happens there. Heaven & Earth currently stays open until 6:00 am. There was a Lt. from the Fire Department at the meeting that told me he personally closed down Heaven & Earth for overcrowding at 4:00 am! If we were expected to trust Eric and Mack, they should not have tried to sneak the liquor permit past the community. They were caught, and I lost my trust for them. Also, they had more liquor violations than what they stated last night, which are documented on a State of Ohio website. The Rialto owners are a different matter. They completely ignored our cries for help when the Moda madness raged on and on. The Rialto guys let Moda run right up until the Feds close the club down. They were horrible landlords then, so how are we to believe that they would be responsible landlords now? There is just way too much at risk to allow another nightclub to happen at the Moda site. I hope that Alternative Press can purchase the building at a realistic price. Mike Shea lives in the neighborhood, and would be great for W.25th. It is interesting how many owners of the reputable businesses here live in or near this neighborhood, and not places like Solon. Also, we are VERY fortunate to have Commander Keith Sulzer looking out for our community. He was great last night. There were two vice Detectives there last night as well. They are personal friends, and tireless warriors against crime in our neighborhood. I could tell you some great stories about these guys some time.
Christine, this is one of the best examples of citizen journalism I've seen in quite awhile. May you continue on this path for a long time.
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